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September 02, 2005

Comments

JACK

I WAS JUST WATCHING THE HORRIBLE EVENTS IN NEW ORLEANS ON CNN WHEN A COMERCIAL CAME ON . IT WAS SPONCERED BY SOME RIGHT WING GP URGING SUPPORT OF JUDGE ROBERTS AND DECRYING THE DEMOCRATIC LEADERSHIP AS OBSTRUCTIONESTS. I AM TOLD THAT THIS AD IS BEINFG SHOWN EVERY HR. MY GUESS IS AT 250000/POP. THINK HOW MUCH REFUGEE AID THAT COULD BE USED FOR

Tom

I have spent 20 yrs with a county search and rescue group in calif. I have seen just about everything,nothing as big as katrina of course. It is always easier to say what should have been done afterwards. From what I have seen on the tv and news radio,I personally feel the city,county,and state need to work more closely together. You have district o.e.s. people in the state, you should have a state level o.e.s. person, you have state fire marshal people .You then have volunteers. The ntl guard is under the control of the govenor, not Bush. They need to work on there incident command system. This was not a federal mistake,it was the state. I think they did what they thought was right at the time.It is hard to do anything when everything is flooded and blown away.

Cyndi

I don't remember this crap happening during Andrew's aftermath. though it took months to get things straightened out. People helped each other instead of shooting, raping and blaming everyone else! I am ashamed these people consider themselves Americans! I Know it's bad, bad stuff happens to everyone. Someone's loved one dies everyday! The fact is these people are used to having everything handed to them all their lives and the cash cow has been temporarily cut off. I don't see Mississippi's people acting in this way. Why not be part of the solution?

Zimm

Having served 20 years in the military service and an additional 20 in Federal law enforcement and intelligence, I believe I am fairly well qualified to evaluate the responses of President Bush and especially the military.
Contrary to what the Liberals are trying to state in their political statements, it continues to take time, a few days, until everything can be organized and put into motion. As you will notice, if you take time to think, the minute the wind died down at N.O. and the other places, many operations were begun. No one, especially the Democrats, had any idea of what the extent of this disaster would be. Everyone, even Ted Kennedy, was surprized. The Government and President Bush responded as quickly as possible. The fact that the President was on vacation does not mean, nor even imply that he was not doing anything, as the Dumbocrats would have you believe.
Just imagin if Kerry had been in charge, talk about a monkey chasing a football. Kennedy had to sober up before he even realized that there had been a disaster. Schumer is still in a daze, Pelosi is still asleep, in her usual state of mind.

Barbara Fahy

I'm getting disgusted with the scenes of people looting, burning, blaming and holloring. When the tsunami hit Asia, those victims waited patiently for aid, helped themselves and each other, and in general, behaved with dignity. These New Orleaners are rude, impatient, and selfish. My heart goes out to those who are truly helpless-the elderly, mothers with young children and the babies they carry. I hope the National Guard has orders to shoot on sight those who are lawless and turning an awful situation into absolute mayhem.

Joanne Miller

Everytime the administration fails to
prevent a big disaster conservatives
jump to microphones and editorial pages to say "We must not make this
a political issue." That is nothing
more than spin control.


George Bush is a Georgie-Come-Lately.
He prevents nothing and reacts late.

In eight months he had no policy to
try to prevent a terror attack against
the United States. (Al Gore, who was
different and not like one of us)
immediately wanted more security at the airports after the Murrah Building
was bombed. Obviously, he had read
the terror threats by Bin Laden.

There were days of warning that New
Orleans might suffer a total underwater experience if the levys failed.

Some people who were trying to leave
New Orleans were denied boarding on
flights they purchased because the
airlines overbooked. Why didn't the
administration send in troop carriers
to fly those people to safety? We
airlift Americans out of foreign countries when danger approaches.

On the State government level why
weren't National Guard transport
vehicles brought in to help evaculate
New Orleans residents who had no vehicle or means of exiting the city.
There should have been a caravan of
National Guard trucks and jeeps
bumper to bumper full of citizens
being rescued before the storm hit.

The first thing the Federal Government
should do before any rebuilding
of the city occurs is to get its
Army Corp of Engineers and Seabees
to build an undistructable wall between New Orleans and the waters
that can threaten and cause so much
woe.

Incertus

Boy, the trolls are out in force, and they're dumber than usual today.

JAS

At this point who cares whether it's Republicans or Democrats to blame? Let's get our collective sh*** together and get these people some food, water, and shelter and some attempted sanity in their lives. We've got way more things to worry about than whether this is a Republican or a Democrat problem. Again, who cares at this point? I'm sitting here in my air conditioned home as are, I'm sure all of the Democratic AND Republican representaives and Senators.

HWL

Gosh, it's really hard to take some of these comments seriously. Cyndi, for example, says

The fact is these people are used to having everything handed to them all their lives and the cash cow has been temporarily cut off.

I just can't imagine what kind of a state of arrogance and ignorance one must live in to make such a statement. "The fact is..." says Cyndi. Yes, Cyndi, who can't quite put together a complete, grammatical sentence ("I Know it's bad, bad stuff happens to everyone.") must have lots of great factual information. It's fact Cyndi? Would you care to enlighten those of who don't have your clairvoyance where you're getting your facts? I'm sure we'd love to know all about those people who are used to having everything handed to them all their lives. Tell us about it. I assume you have numbers, evidence, experience, and sound reasoning. Because surely you wouldn't be making such a broad generalization without anything to back it up, would you?

And our friend Zimm who says

Everyone, even Ted Kennedy, was surprized.

Wow, Zimm. That's impressive, and I'm not talking about the fact that you somehow managed to misspell the word "surprised." You must really be living in under a rock somewhere, because if you had made even a cursory perusal of the news media, you'd know that the only person that was surprised was the president. Here are some links that you won't bother to read:

http://www.nola.com/hurricane/index.ssf?/washingaway/part1.html

that's from 2003. Pretty interesting.

http://thinkprogress.org/2005/09/01/bush-administration-had-reason-to-know-about-levee-problems/

that's a whole list of headlines.

Here's some science. But since you're a republican, I assume you don't believe in any of it:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNews&article=UPI-1-20050902-11181900-bc-us-katrina-levees.xml

Anyway, if either of you, Cyndi or Zimm, would care to do some reading and maybe try to learn something before commenting next time, I'd appreciate it.

dee

I am really disgusted that people can rape and loot at a time like this, makes me think,its a city i am glad i never been too. Usually, with most human beings, when a diaster hits, they all pull together. I feel sorry andmy heart goes out to the good people there, but i think a lot of them belong in prison.

RAY RUSSO

it is bUSH thecuts in aid for LOUISIANA and FEMA taxcuts for the riich tons of money fore IRAQ and right now the rebels whoare just against us taking ove rtheir country are winning send home THE GUARD to help now send food send buses w eKNEW this storm was coming two weeks ago but THE HOMELAND securty and FEMA people led by NERO BUSH were asleep out with this arrogant administration out now before more disaters hit us

Cyndi

HWL, thanks for the grammer class......perhaps YOU SHOULD check your own aggroance and ignorance. I'm not going to do your fact finding for you. Perhaps if you spent a bit more time doing YOUR OWN research instead of critiquing everyone's grammer, YOU YOURSELF would have a clue! La.'s own government had a responsibility to get it's invalid people out of there. The people looting look pretty able bodied to me. Instead of lootin, (for NONESSENTIALS) why are they not trying to help their neighbors? Surely they KNOW the way out of the city. Apparently, they know the way to the electronics stores. One does not need clairvoyance to see the facts.

Incertus

Let me explain something to you Cyndi--there are two classes of people being discussed here. The poor and invalid, who couln't get out of the way in time, and those who have subsequently taken advantage of the situation. In most cases, there's a lot of overlap.

Now let me ask you something, Cyndi--do you live in or have you ever lived in Louisiana? Do you have any concept of just how poor the state as a whole is, and especially how poor the New Orleans area is? Here's a paragraph from a piece in the Guardian:

When 80 percent of the city's population, according to the mayor, evacuated before Hurricane Katrina, that left behind those with no cars, no resources, no way out. Twenty-one percent of Orleans Parish households earn less than $10,000 a year. Nearly 27,000 families are below the poverty level. Most of those families are black.

Now, do you expect those people, even if they're able-bodied, to be able to relocate for any period of time, even assuming they have the resources to get out of the city in the first place? And can you really expect the state of Louisiana and the city of New Orleans to have the resources to help them given a tax base like that? How can they help each other when they can't even help themselves?

I'm not defending those who are looting items other than necessities--it's wrong, and it's stupid, because no long-term gain can come from it--but it's clear to me that you have absolutely no concept of what life in that city is like at the best of times, and that you're a heartless idiot now that the city is in peril.

Anastasia

There are a number of reasons why Bush should be held accountable. Not the least of which is that it seems like every time there is a big problem, Bush gives excuses such as the event couldn't be forseen.

1) Many warnings over the years that the levees needed repairing. Most recently in June of this year, but rather than work on the problem, Bush slashed the Flood Control budget by 44% to pay for the Iraq war.

2) In 2004 (an election year) Florida had four hurricanes in as many months, two of them major. Keep in mind that the state was vital to Bush's reelection chances and Bush's brother Jeb was Governor of the state .

My father lived in one of the effected areas, so I'm fairly clear on this. FEMA did an outstanding job, at least until after the election. The state was crawling with them.

3) As many have pointed out before me, all you had to do was turn on the TV to see that N.O. had a problem of humungeous porportions. Why didn't some bright bulb at the White House pick up the phone and act?

Remember, communications in all of New Orleans and a good portion Louisiana were down. Any of us sitting in our living rooms could see the problem and see what needed to done. Lots and lots of troops, food and equipment right away.

If the networks and cable news folks could get in there, why couldn't the Federal Government?

4) 30 -40% of our National Guard and 50% of Guard equipment is in Iraq right now. Bush has over extended the Army and National Guard have left us vulnerable.

5) FEMA is part of Homeland Security now. How many of you feel good about how they would respond to a terrorist chemical or nuclear attack?

6) Bush himself declared a Federal State of Emergency for the area the day BEFORE the storm, because there were predictions that the levees could burst and N.O. would be a major catastrophy. It's unbelieveable to me that the troops weren't on the outskirts of the area and ready to roll on the day after Katrina hit.

HWL

Cyndi,

In my previous comment I said this:

"I assume you have numbers, evidence, experience, and sound reasoning."

Your follow-up comment provided no numbers, no evidence, no experience, and no reasoning (sound or unsound). Incertus helpfully provided you with some numbers and some evidence, and he also reasoned through them. I accuse you of arrogance and ignorance (or, "aggroance and ignorance" as you have it) because that you have none of that. You have said substantially the same thing twice in two comments, and your opinions appear to be based on what you've seen on TV ("The people looting look pretty able bodied to me."). Of course, I can't tell which TV station you've been watching because most of the ones I've seen have shown a lot of old people in wheelchairs. But nevermind that. The point, of course, is that your anecdotal evidence, which you're interpreting through what appears to be a pre-existing prejudice, doesn't mean anything when put next to real facts and information.

As for your comment that

"I'm not going to do your fact finding for you. Perhaps if you spent a bit more time doing YOUR OWN research instead of critiquing everyone's grammer, YOU YOURSELF would have a clue!"

If you had read the post that you're commenting on, which I suspect you didn't, you would have seen that for each of my claims I provided a link. Perhaps if you spent a bit more time READING insteading ungrammatically critiquing everyone else, YOU YOURSELF would have a clue.

Thanks for playing. Better luck next time.

Anastasia

Here's an excerpt from item from the AP that's worth taking a look at. 300 Troops are being pulled from Iraq and Afghanistan to help with the relief effort.

.....

Air Force Sending 300 Home From Iraq, Afghanistan
By JIM KRANE, AP

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (Sept. 3) - While the U.S. Army ordered its Louisiana-based troops to stay and fight in Iraq, the Air Force said Saturday it would send 300 airmen home from Iraq and Afghanistan to handle emergencies on a Mississippi air base devastated by Hurricane Katrina.

......

I guess that means that the shortage of troops is far worse than any of us might have imagined, especially if we took at face value Bush and Rumsfelds repeated statements that the U.S. Army generals in Iraq were content with the number of troops they had for fighting.

If we don't have 300 troops at home we can send to the Gulf coast, how can we cope in the event of a terrorist attack at home?

Cyndi

HML this isn't a game for me. Your own grammaticaly correct words, reveal your need to be correct. I am guilty of not proof reading my typing. And you apparently of not seeing (or wanting to see) all sides of this tragedy. The corruption of New Orleans is mind blowing. Although I have not compiled a thesis, I have done research. My comment was on how these people have been oppressed for so long they have no idea of how to act. And their "elected officials would love nothing more than to pass the buck on to the rest of us. I have serious doubts concerning the educated idiots who decided to build a city on a marsh below sea level as it is!

Incertus, I didn't put those people in peril, the brilliant ones who built the city did. I don't know about you but I consider that pretty heartless. Don't try to shift the blame here. I do know exactly how bad it is to be poor and sick. But I'm not blaming everyone else for it. By the way, I do hope you guys would consider NOT placing the poor and sick in harms way again. That's what my heartless and grammatically challeged self am trying to do.

DebQ815, does God see how you judge someone in emails withhout the decency to allow them to answer you?

IRWIN RABIN

I AGREE WITH ONE THING 5DAYS LATE AND A BILLION SHORT WITH LOGIC IN THE BASEMENT. AND SPIN STORIES ON FRONT PAGE!

Incertus

Cyndi, I grew up there, and I know that city a whole hell of a lot better than you do, and the reason those people are in peril and are dying--as so many people in these comments have noted--has a shitload to do with Bush and the Republican congress cutting funding to the levee system to fund his precious little war in Iraq, and the fact that the response since the hurricane passed over them has been underwhelming to say the least has done nothing but fuel my anger toward the administration. So if anyone is to blame for putting those people in harm's way, it's Bush, so anytime you want to start casting blame that way, you go right ahead.

In the meantime, you also might want to start asking yourself just what the hell you would be doing if New Orleans didn't exist. It's the gateway for imports for all of Middle America, and it handles roughly a third of all oil imports and domestic oil production for the US. That takes people living in harm's way, under the threat of hurricanes. They live in danger so you can have cheaper food and gasoline. So if you want to insult them, go right ahead. If you want to shut New Orleans down, go right ahead. But understand that you will be fucking up your own life as a result.

Cyndi

Actually Incertus, looks like you too could use a bit of grammer school!

At any rate I am tired of the ranting.

My initial post was concerning those who are looting the non essentials, shooting at the rescue workers and raping those already used by the La. government. Bush didn't build New Orleans, didn't tell anyone to live there (as far as I know) but did encourage them to leave. Your hatred is misdirected. I'm sure it stems from being duped by your own government officials in La. and Bush is (of cource) the reason for that too, as he appoints all leadership......and as far as my life is concerned, I am safe and have learned how to be comfortable in hard times. If those "brilliant" people could build a port city below sea level, surely they can figure out how to buile one above it.

Incertus

Actually Cyndi, I'm an Instructor of English at a sizable university--my grammar is just fine, thank you. And so is my history--the French built New Orleans 400 years ago, and they knew they were building in a flood plain, but the place was too important strategically to cede it to anyone else, and every military commander seeking to control the central portion of the US ever since then has known that. Andrew Jackson, both Grant and Lee--they knew that to control New Orleans was to control commercial traffic through the central US, and in the intervening decades, nothing has changed. In WWII, Germany was trying to conduct U-Boat operations in the Gulf, because they knew the strategic importance of the city.

Here's what that means to you--people have to live in New Orleans, because it's too important to our national security not to exist. Now Bush didn't order people to live there--but then again, no one here is suggesting he did. What he and his administration did do, however, is divert funding from the necessary maintenance of the levee system in order to help fund his glorious little war in Iraq.

Let's think about that trade-off for a second. Iraq gets a militant Islamic republic where women have no rights and were, frighteningly enough, better off under Saddam Hussein, and the US gets the destruction of one of the most strategically important cities in the US. What a bargain!

Here's another reason why my hatred of this administration has grown exponentially. Louisiana asked for help the day before the hurricane struck, because they knew they'd be overwhelmed, and Bush didn't get back to them until over three days later, because he was too busy vacationing. And all the encouragement in the world doesn't mean shit if you don't have 1) the resources to leave and 2) the ability to start over if you lose everything to flood damage and/or looters. Most of the people who stayed did so because they had no other option. It's obvious you've never been in in that type of a situation before, and you ought to thank whatever god you claim to believe in for that good fortune.

the exile

The number and intensity of the troll activity on a blog that (with all due respect) normally doesn't get more than a few comments per post, tells me that the White House is terrified about the political fallout of their incompetence. And yes, Cyndi, incompetence it is. History tells us that looting DOES happen in big cities when people have no legal access to food, water or money, when power goes out, and when the authorities do not dominate the situation to impose law and order. It also happens more often when the authorities themselves have a breakdown of discipline, which clearly happened with the NOPD. To say this is true is not to defend the looters. Those who steal jewelry and stereos are evil criminals, but WE KNOW THIS HAPPENS, and blaming them is a lame excuse, not a solution. We know that this happens in such situations, and we know how to prevent it: one, a highly visible troop presence in the streets from the very beginning, and two, the effective distribution of aid so that the temptation to loot is diminished. In past disasters these two things have been done effectively. They could have been done effectively in NO. They weren't. Maybe the governor has some responsibility. But only the Federal government could provide the regular army troops needed, and FEMA is the agency charged with providing the relief. So the primary failures WERE federal. And they had at least 3 days to prepare a response before the storm hit. There is no evidence that those 3 days were utiized efficiently. Those are facts, and to rant about the looters, while surely justified, is completely and utterly irrelevant. The President's primary duty, above all others, is to protect Americans, He failed. What part of this don't you understand?

Sue

Just a quick question. Is there any info out there on what kind of levee, size and cost, would have PREVENTED the flooding that the hurricane caused? I wonder if anyone here has any links to real data on that.

I think whomever decided to create a city below sea level near the Gulf was crazy to begin with. I would never live there. I don't ever want to live where hurricanes can kill and destroy my home. I'll stay in St Louis and dodge the occasional tornado and hail storm. We don't worry about hurricanes, volcanoes and forest fires. The only big threat is an Earthquake along the New Madrid fault, but if it were big enough to destroy St Louis, the whole country would be in peril I believe, and probably the whole planet.

Diskarapur

Some things FYC(hopefully you folks will learn something):

http://tinyurl.com/badtr
http://www.haloscan.com/tb/gea3/112563606885270059/

New Orleans Proves How Deadly the Old Media Is To American Lives
http://www.pascalfervor.com/

The Times' Flood Control Hypocrisy
http://tinyurl.com/bfbj2
http://www.timeswatch.org/twarticles/2005/20050902.asp

MSM: In Their Own Words, A Continuing Series
http://tinyurl.com/absw9
http://eurota.blogspot.com/2005/09/msm-in-their-own-words-continuing.html

The Devil And The Deep Blue Sea -- Or -- New Orleans And The New York Times
http://tinyurl.com/at6mn
http://www.eternityroad.info/index.php/weblog/single/the_devil_and_the_deep_blue_sea_or_new_orleans_and_the_new_york_times/

Anastasia

I don't have any links for you but I saw an interview on CNN with an officer from the Army Corps of Engineers who said that the levee was built to withstand a Catagory 3 hurricane. However, it needed repairing and shoring up, but the Bush Administration cut the Army Corps of Engineeer's budget by 44% to help pay for the Iraq War.

FYI The City of New Orleans was founded in 1718. We also have the City of Venice, Italy and the entire country of Holland, where, apparently there were people crazy enough to build in these places too.

But if we are to argue for absolutely everyone living in perfectly safe geo locations, then the entire population who live in hurricane zones, shouldn't get a dime from the federal government when there house is damaged, because they were crazy to build there.

In 2004 (an election year, mind you) Florida had 4 hurricanes in as many months and FEMA was swarming all over that state like an ant colony on a honey. I don't know how much that cost the tax payers but a lot.

By the way, all that grain and produce that's raised in your area? That has to be shipped to the port of New Orleans in order for it to get to market. But it's been damaged, so your area will be hurt by this too.

You see, many religions, possibly yours, would argue that when your brothers and sisters suffer, all suffer. When some are sick and homeless and dying, it is our duty as human beings to take care of them. Because we are them and they are us.


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