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February 17, 2005

Comments

gary

I don't think they ever had a mind to lose!

I look on it like this. My father always said that a thief gets caught because he becomes greedy. This greed leads to carelessness. This leads to mistakes. Those mistakes lead to conviction.

The Right Wingers are in the same cycle. They are greedy with power. The lust for more is leading them to make careless decisions and accusations. These powerful missteps will bring them down.

America is SLOW! God knows, this country always takes too damn long to see the truth, but eventually we wake up.

America is going to soon grow tired of the mistakes, the lies, and the hate.

At least I sure hope so.

In any event, mistakes by the GOP are inevitable. No one can stand so long, proud, and zealously in the spot light without eventually getting burned by the heat of the halogens cast upon them.

Cheryl

I do not think it is a question of anyone in the leadership losing their mind. I think it is a question of morality. Every instance you pointed to is a moral failing. Lying, stealing, cheating are all methods used by desperate people who cannot get their way legitimately. In some cases it is merely a shortcut taken to accelerate what would transpire anyway, but in other cases the cheating is purely to manipulate the public debate and bring about a change that cannot be arrived at legitimately.

Where the general public gets lost is in the conflation of religion with morality. By wrapping themselves in bibles and flags, the Republicans feel license to do whatever they want. Since most Statians are ignorant and unwary, they go along with it. Does anything about this surprise you?

No, the Republicans have not lost their minds. It is the rednecks and trailer trash who vote for Republicans who have lost their minds. They are voting for the worst possible economic policies that completely are at odds with their own self-interest based on the conflation of morality with religion.

I can understand wealthy and powerful people voting Republican. That makes sense. I cannot understand the lowest of the low doing likewise. It simply is not possible to rationalize that, and that is where the break with sanity is occurring.

Incertus

The problem, Cheryl, is that what the lower economic classes are voting based on isn't rationally based--it's emotionally based. They see Bush as a strong leader, and a good, Christian man--never mind what his record shows or what logic and reason tell you--that's their perception, and it's what drives their voting habits. I grew up with those people--in some ways, I'm still one of them in the sense that you never fully leave your past behind--and while I disagree with them vehemently, I can see just how they can vote the way they do.

One other thing to mention. The people in this voting group are generally very religions--dogmatically so--and I think that those of us who aren't religious (or are no longer so) or who never belonged to a religion that demands unquestioning faith and obedience don't realize just how easily a lot of these people can bat away evidence as little more than a nuisance. They do it with evolution all the time, and the arguments for that are at least as substantive as the ones that say Goerge Bush is the worst President of the last hundred years. If you're willing to believe that God put fossils in the earth to test your faith as to the creation story, is it really a stretch to believe that Bush thought there were WMD in Iraq and he was just given bad info by that Clinton-loving George Tenet? Especially when every pundit on tv is saying exactly that?

Cheryl

You reinforce my own point.

dmeyers

Incertus,

It is amazing you know the mind of some many people that don't vote the way you do. When the right claims many on the left are "elitest" and "arrogant" you are what we are talking about.

"classes are voting based on isn't rationally based--it's emotionally based. " is the classic elitest statment... Those people are too stupid to vote correctly... Keep it up and enjoy your minority status

DavidByron

Incertus your statement doesn't match the facts and is overly pessimistic (in some ways).

The problem, Cheryl, is that what the lower economic classes are voting based on isn't rationally based--it's emotionally based.

Since something like 70% of those who voted for Bush beleived that Iraq invaded the US, and that Iraq had WMDs and that Bush has found the WMDs and that Saddam was funding terorism against the US and a hundred other lies about Iraq and the war.... but really those are sufficient... why is voting Bush illogical given such false information?

Their logic is fine, it's their data that is faulty. They are rational and vote rationally but they have been lied to.

This hypothesis also fits in much better with what we know about the US media.

Of course 30-50% of Republicans may have voted for Bush despite knowing the truth about the war. That would represent something like 8-12% of American adults. many would have reasons for voting for Bush even though they know he's a liar.

No doubt many voted emotionally but it doesn't seem like you need to hypothesise that a large proportion of the electorate did.

Cheryl

It is amazing you know the mind of some many people that don't vote the way you do. When the right claims many on the left are "elitest" and "arrogant" you are what we are talking about.

Brilliant illustration of your own hypocrisy. How the crap do you know if people are elitist and arrogant if as you say you cannot climb inside their skulls and feel what they feel?

Thanks dmeyers. I live for moments like these.

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